Those who "sleep" (or) Moebius syllogism?

Posted on September 16, 2009 by Rick

A turning point(?) in my theological understanding of death was when during Introduction to Christian Mission my fine professor Isam Ballenger rather strongly state “the Christian faith does not teach the immortality of the soul – it teaches resurrection of the body” and during the same class “when we die we do not move in space so much as we move in time”.

What did he mean by this? Probably that we do not move (spatially) to some place commonly called heaven so much as we move temporally to the eschaton and the resurrection of the dead. But what happens to the “soul” (using that term imprecisely for now) between the moment of death and the resurrection? Does it go (spatially) to heaven? I submit this is how Christians normally think and talk.

“Where is grandpa?”

“Grandpa is in heaven with Jesus”.

The Bible does and does not seem to address the issue that way. Paul writes:

21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. (Philippians 1 – NIV)

Death means to be with Christ. (Which does not necessarily resolve the question of spatially or temporally?)

Paul also frequently uses the language of sleep to describe those who have died (at least those who have died in union with Christ). Indeed in the context of describing the resurrection he writes:

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed– 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  (1 Corinthians 15 – NIV)

For reasons I cannot entirely explain I spend a lot of time thinking about this issue. Perhaps because I make such a big deal about the physical dimensions of salvation. That is our bodies will be changed – not thrown away forever. Salvation is not escape from material reality – it is the redemption of spiritual and material reality. This issue also touches on very basic issues of theological anthropology – who are we? and what does it mean to be human and created in the image and likeness of God? Of course as John Zizioulas demonstrates in his book Being as Communion there is a sense in which our understanding of anthropology may determine our ecclesiology and soteriology. (But then I am not a theologian and may be completely misunderstanding Zizioulas.)

Of course there is a sense in which I want to know “where is my grandfather? where is my dad?”

And Christians frequently make rather glib statements about those who have died that are intended to comfort. “Grandpa’s looking down at us and smiling”. “I’m sure your mom is celebrating in heaven with us”. “Our baby is now one of God’s angels in heaven”. “God needed your dad in heaven”. But some of these statements while arguably comforting – the last one is anything but makes no sense and turns God into a cosmic jerk – are thoughtless and theologically nonsense. I do not have much patience with people saying things that are meant to comfort or encourage – but have no legitimacy or grounding in the teachings of the Christian faith.

Truth works best. And it works best because it is true. (That right there has become one of my strongest convictions.)

Without addressing this issue thoroughly or properly there are some who believe in “soul sleep”. When a person dies their “soul” does not travel off to heaven (wherever that is). Rather the person sleeps until the resurrection. I remember when we spent the night in Birmingham Alabama and it seemed there was a convention in town. Turns out it was a major gathering of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There was very well done (balanced and not critical) article in the paper the next day about this. And the article mentioned several distinctive points of their theology. Please do not be alarmed but I thought “dang – I agree with half of these”. And one of the points was “soul sleep”.

But we also have the clear teaching of the Bible that those who have died are somehow “with God”. So if they are asleep – how can they be “with God”?

I wonder if Protestant Christians have really thought through the significance of the story of the Transfiguration. I will use the account from Luke because of the extra remarkable detail it contains:

About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, 31 appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. 32 Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. (Luke 9)

Has the resurrection happened yet? No. Has the Passion happened yet? No. (This is important because we have two Old Testament figures with Christ. Christ has not yet descended into Hades. Of course how salvation touches on pre-Christ persons has always been a murky issue. And it does not help that Elijah never really died. And it is unclear if Moses died.) And yet here are these two people speaking with Jesus. They are somehow present. And – do notice this part! – they may be aware of what is happening in the world.

So if those who have died are “asleep” how can they also be present and aware of what is happening in the world? (And again – that this is Moses and Elijah complicates the question.)

What if those who die fall asleep – and are translated in time to the resurrection of the dead? Whereupon they live in eternity? Where time does not work the same way?

Our present cannot see those in eternity. But those in eternity can see us. (We are present to them but they are not present to us.) Sort of like a one way mirror. But instead of glass what separates us is time/eternity.

If x goes to y goes to z which can see x but x cannot see z… Presence and perception which only moves in one direction and never backwards. I tried to picture this in my mind and the closest analogy I came up with is a Moebius strip. Is this a Moebius syllogism?

Yeah I know. Pretty flimsy. Just thinking out loud.

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  • Jonathan

    One of the reasons I read your blog is so that I can get my “look at the big brain on Rick” headache out of the way. Just kidding.

    I tend to view the transfiguration in terms of Paul’s reflection in 2 Corinthians 3:18 but I have always (well, as long as I can remember) pondered the mechanics of that event (and the picture of Abraham’s bosom in Luke 16) and what both mean in terms of what will happen immediately after I die and before my body is resurrected.

    What I’d like you do comment on, especially given your background in both Hebrew, OT, and ancient Near/Mid Eastern history, concerns the other component of this discussion: what about the body itself during this “translation through time”? Knowing what we know (or what we can known) in 2009 about death, resurrection, glorification, body/soul relationship, is there a mandate on how a body be treated during this period? Pine box, cremation, entombment, embalming (ancient Egyptian or modern chemical hardening) and so on.

    If not a mandate (and this is where it gets fun for me), how would you/do you, as a pastor, counsel folks who are planning their own arrangements or the grieving family who are attempting to honor the departed.

  • http://www.livethetrinity.net Rick

    Oh my goodness. This could be a research paper!

    Excellent questions. Although “knowing what we know” I have to ask what *do* we know in 2009 about these things?

    I can speak with some knowledge to the whole OT and ancient West Asian beliefs and practices. Part of the problem is they would not have understood the question since it is unclear they have any notion of resurrection. (Hints in the latest portions of OT but otherwise you have Sheol and some vague shadowy existence in the grave.) Except for the Egyptians the surrounding cultures seemed to share similar beliefs and practices. Sumerians speak of KUR.NU.GI.A(K) the “land of no return” which in Akkadian is ertset la taari. One of the first Akkadian texts I translated was “The Descent of Ishtar” about Ishtar descending to the netherworld to get her brother Dumuzi/Tammuz back. It is important because the first several lines describe clearly (and beautifully) how they understood post-mortem-existence. (Using that expression rather than “life after death” because it was not much of a “life”.)

    Now this raises some questions which I could research some more. The OT occasionally refers to the “breath” or “spirit” (nephesh or ruach) somehow departing the body and going… where exactly? And if there is this Sheol place (state? condition?) then why so much concern for the body? Even the non-Israelite cultures were expected not to desecrate dead bodies. (Bones of Saul.)

    The Egyptians were weird. They were about the only culture in ancient world to believe in a real happy life after death. So all the effort they put into preserving bodies, leaving items for the dead, making little “homes” for the dead – all that makes sense.

    You ask what I say and do. The peculiarities of my congregation are such that I have dealt with death *once* in 10 years. (Mostly international students and scholars in their 20′s through 40′s.) I was shocked when my grandmother was cremated – seemed such a departure from the family norm. And I understood why my dad was cremated – my mom did not want us to see him dead (even if embalmed and all that good stuff).

    As you know Jonathan I tend to be influenced by other traditions. In this case (1) Jewish thought/practice (since I was educated largely by Jewish scholars) and (2) my recent forays into Orthodoxy. (Not planning to convert. Just studying and learning and finding much with which I resonate.) And those two groups clearly oppose cremation. So my “hey it’s cheap and easy” attitude is giving way to “but what does cremation say theologically?” God will resurrect the dead. This is a non-negotiable central conviction (dogma even) which no doubt we both share. And the power of God is such that it does not matter whether he has a corpse, a skeleton, ashes, or quite frankly obliterated scattered atoms (9/11 and the like). So God does not need us to keep, preserve(?) and bury bodies.

    But we do and perhaps we *should*. To show respect and reverence for the body that God made. That God loved. And that God will resurrect and transform/transfigure).

    Those are not really clear answers. All I know is that in the last few years I have become increasingly interested in the importance of the “physical” dimensions of salvation. God loves the physical universe and will not ultimately abandon it. That includes our bodies.

  • Jonathan

    Okay. So if we remove the following type of folks from the discussion:

    1. Those who go for cremation for the “coolness” factor (i.e. ‘Dude, I want my ashes spread in NZ where they filmed the LOTR’).
    2. Those who choose cremation because it is less expensive than the alternative so that they can take the extra inheritance money and upgrade to an Audi.
    3. Pagans

    Can it be permissible to cremate? Is it possible that, on a topic where the Scriptures is silent, one could take a cue from a non-Christian/non-Jewish culture and do cremation in a loving, respectful, honorable, Christ centered manner?

    If no, how does one, then, argue in favor of the modern practice of cremation (full disclosure: I witnessed an embalming at the ripe old age of 10…one of my father’s bad ideas (for a 10 year old…I had about two weeks of nightmares that were similar to one of the first scenes of Braveheart) but those memories are very illuminating to me an adult. Being just as graphic as necessary, the embalmer takes what looks like a injection/gun with two tubes attached and attaches the gun to the neck (near the jugular?) of the departed (he pulls a trigger and there is a fairly loud “whoosh” sound). Blood begins to drain out one of the tubes and, at certain point, embalming fluid begins to fill the departed via the other tube. During the process, the embalmer takes something that looks like surgical pliers and cracks out all of the teeth and then sews the jaws together. The eyelids are also sewn shut (but, in some cases, the eye sockets are filled with an epoxy type of substance to give the upper face a more “natural” full appearance.

    I have no doubt that this act is done, for the most part, with honor and respect (both for the body and with the family in mind). But I just have a difficult time seeing that what occurs during an embalming to be such that it would be immediately preferred by folks who see that honoring God to be the highest priority.

    As an aside, I honestly don’t have a preference for either forms of body preparation/burial and I’d be surprised if any I or any of my relatives are ever cremated. My interest is in how we get to the “embalming is the solution most in keeping with the Christian faith”.

    As a further aside, you can google Russell Moore and cremation and read his thoughts on the matter (I’d like your thoughts on that as well…not that you don’t already have enough homework to do without someone like me asking so many questions…” :)

  • http://www.livethetrinity.net Rick

    Well… now that you bring it up… maybe my ashes *should* be spread on Caras Galadhon in Lorien (New Zealand). j/k

    Of course as a good seminarian we toured a funeral home twice. And they explain how it is done. But you have (a) seen it and (b) filled in some details they left out (teeth, jaw, eyes). I do see your point – how is this more “reverent, God-honoring” than a dignified cremation? (If I understand you right.)

    Actually… if (some) Christians want to make a case for burial but not cremation… one could easily argue that embalming is somehow unnecessary even gratuitous. Speaking of that tour… we would go back to the old fashioned ice chests (which that home still had as a kind of museum piece).

    Thanks for the heads up that Moore has written on this.

    So what do *you* think about the “where does the departed person go?” Not trying to pin you into a corner… genuinely interested. One could argue this is all a mystery and I have no business trying to peek behind the veil. Just trust God on this. We will be “with God” and there will be a resurrection/transformation.

    Addendum: Found a piece by Moore from Christianity Today. Quite nice. My guess is you think his rationale for being opposed to cremation needs to be fleshed out more?

  • Jonathan

    “Where does the departed person go” is probably among the least considered questions in modern evangelical circles. I would guess that if 100 “regular” church attenders were to give you their honest answer, a paraphrased version of 2 Peter 3:8-10 would be a part of most of the replies.

    My own view is probably just a little more developed than that. I find a unanimity in Scripture in that we will not receive our resurrection bodies until after the 2nd coming of Christ and the glorification of the body will be a corporate, not individual, event. In other words, we will all be glorified at the some time, together.

    I find something else on the question regarding the time between death and the resurrection and glorification of the body…namely, Paul’s and John’s writings and some OT examples. Paul does write about being absent from the body and present with the Lord in the context of the delay between death and resurrection. John writes in Revelation about the souls who are under the mercy seat crying out for justice. In both cases, it would appear that what is being communicated is that there is a consciousness but also a nakedness (souls without the body). The best OT example that describes the condition would be the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Clearly the resurrection has not come about. So it is possible that our souls hang out in Abraham’s bosom while we wait for the return of Christ?

    While there are a number of other verses that skirt this issue, I don’t see anymore than what I’ve described (in which case, the problem could be with me).

    About Moore’s column. I generally like Dr. Moore (his speaking more so than his writing, though) but his thoughts on cremation seemed to be a personal reflection in search of a Scriptural warrant (which he pretty much admits is not available). I know of a half a dozen young pastors who teach the same thing to their flock and when asked, point to Moore’s columns on the subject.

  • http://livethetrinity.net/2010/11/thoughts-about-resurrection-in-light-of-luke-20-and-science-fiction/ Thoughts about resurrection in light of Luke 20 and science-fiction | Live the Trinity

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