My own view is probably just a little more developed than that. I find a unanimity in Scripture in that we will not receive our resurrection bodies until after the 2nd coming of Christ and the glorification of the body will be a corporate, not individual, event. In other words, we will all be glorified at the some time, together.

I find something else on the question regarding the time between death and the resurrection and glorification of the body…namely, Paul’s and John’s writings and some OT examples. Paul does write about being absent from the body and present with the Lord in the context of the delay between death and resurrection. John writes in Revelation about the souls who are under the mercy seat crying out for justice. In both cases, it would appear that what is being communicated is that there is a consciousness but also a nakedness (souls without the body). The best OT example that describes the condition would be the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Clearly the resurrection has not come about. So it is possible that our souls hang out in Abraham’s bosom while we wait for the return of Christ?

While there are a number of other verses that skirt this issue, I don’t see anymore than what I’ve described (in which case, the problem could be with me).

About Moore’s column. I generally like Dr. Moore (his speaking more so than his writing, though) but his thoughts on cremation seemed to be a personal reflection in search of a Scriptural warrant (which he pretty much admits is not available). I know of a half a dozen young pastors who teach the same thing to their flock and when asked, point to Moore’s columns on the subject.

Of course as a good seminarian we toured a funeral home twice. And they explain how it is done. But you have (a) seen it and (b) filled in some details they left out (teeth, jaw, eyes). I do see your point – how is this more “reverent, God-honoring” than a dignified cremation? (If I understand you right.)

Actually… if (some) Christians want to make a case for burial but not cremation… one could easily argue that embalming is somehow unnecessary even gratuitous. Speaking of that tour… we would go back to the old fashioned ice chests (which that home still had as a kind of museum piece).

Thanks for the heads up that Moore has written on this.

So what do *you* think about the “where does the departed person go?” Not trying to pin you into a corner… genuinely interested. One could argue this is all a mystery and I have no business trying to peek behind the veil. Just trust God on this. We will be “with God” and there will be a resurrection/transformation.

Addendum: Found a piece by Moore from Christianity Today. Quite nice. My guess is you think his rationale for being opposed to cremation needs to be fleshed out more?

1. Those who go for cremation for the “coolness” factor (i.e. ‘Dude, I want my ashes spread in NZ where they filmed the LOTR’).
2. Those who choose cremation because it is less expensive than the alternative so that they can take the extra inheritance money and upgrade to an Audi.
3. Pagans

Can it be permissible to cremate? Is it possible that, on a topic where the Scriptures is silent, one could take a cue from a non-Christian/non-Jewish culture and do cremation in a loving, respectful, honorable, Christ centered manner?

If no, how does one, then, argue in favor of the modern practice of cremation (full disclosure: I witnessed an embalming at the ripe old age of 10…one of my father’s bad ideas (for a 10 year old…I had about two weeks of nightmares that were similar to one of the first scenes of Braveheart) but those memories are very illuminating to me an adult. Being just as graphic as necessary, the embalmer takes what looks like a injection/gun with two tubes attached and attaches the gun to the neck (near the jugular?) of the departed (he pulls a trigger and there is a fairly loud “whoosh” sound). Blood begins to drain out one of the tubes and, at certain point, embalming fluid begins to fill the departed via the other tube. During the process, the embalmer takes something that looks like surgical pliers and cracks out all of the teeth and then sews the jaws together. The eyelids are also sewn shut (but, in some cases, the eye sockets are filled with an epoxy type of substance to give the upper face a more “natural” full appearance.

I have no doubt that this act is done, for the most part, with honor and respect (both for the body and with the family in mind). But I just have a difficult time seeing that what occurs during an embalming to be such that it would be immediately preferred by folks who see that honoring God to be the highest priority.

As an aside, I honestly don’t have a preference for either forms of body preparation/burial and I’d be surprised if any I or any of my relatives are ever cremated. My interest is in how we get to the “embalming is the solution most in keeping with the Christian faith”.

As a further aside, you can google Russell Moore and cremation and read his thoughts on the matter (I’d like your thoughts on that as well…not that you don’t already have enough homework to do without someone like me asking so many questions…”

Excellent questions. Although “knowing what we know” I have to ask what *do* we know in 2009 about these things?

I can speak with some knowledge to the whole OT and ancient West Asian beliefs and practices. Part of the problem is they would not have understood the question since it is unclear they have any notion of resurrection. (Hints in the latest portions of OT but otherwise you have Sheol and some vague shadowy existence in the grave.) Except for the Egyptians the surrounding cultures seemed to share similar beliefs and practices. Sumerians speak of KUR.NU.GI.A(K) the “land of no return” which in Akkadian is ertset la taari. One of the first Akkadian texts I translated was “The Descent of Ishtar” about Ishtar descending to the netherworld to get her brother Dumuzi/Tammuz back. It is important because the first several lines describe clearly (and beautifully) how they understood post-mortem-existence. (Using that expression rather than “life after death” because it was not much of a “life”.)

Now this raises some questions which I could research some more. The OT occasionally refers to the “breath” or “spirit” (nephesh or ruach) somehow departing the body and going… where exactly? And if there is this Sheol place (state? condition?) then why so much concern for the body? Even the non-Israelite cultures were expected not to desecrate dead bodies. (Bones of Saul.)

The Egyptians were weird. They were about the only culture in ancient world to believe in a real happy life after death. So all the effort they put into preserving bodies, leaving items for the dead, making little “homes” for the dead – all that makes sense.

You ask what I say and do. The peculiarities of my congregation are such that I have dealt with death *once* in 10 years. (Mostly international students and scholars in their 20′s through 40′s.) I was shocked when my grandmother was cremated – seemed such a departure from the family norm. And I understood why my dad was cremated – my mom did not want us to see him dead (even if embalmed and all that good stuff).

As you know Jonathan I tend to be influenced by other traditions. In this case (1) Jewish thought/practice (since I was educated largely by Jewish scholars) and (2) my recent forays into Orthodoxy. (Not planning to convert. Just studying and learning and finding much with which I resonate.) And those two groups clearly oppose cremation. So my “hey it’s cheap and easy” attitude is giving way to “but what does cremation say theologically?” God will resurrect the dead. This is a non-negotiable central conviction (dogma even) which no doubt we both share. And the power of God is such that it does not matter whether he has a corpse, a skeleton, ashes, or quite frankly obliterated scattered atoms (9/11 and the like). So God does not need us to keep, preserve(?) and bury bodies.

But we do and perhaps we *should*. To show respect and reverence for the body that God made. That God loved. And that God will resurrect and transform/transfigure).

Those are not really clear answers. All I know is that in the last few years I have become increasingly interested in the importance of the “physical” dimensions of salvation. God loves the physical universe and will not ultimately abandon it. That includes our bodies.

I tend to view the transfiguration in terms of Paul’s reflection in 2 Corinthians 3:18 but I have always (well, as long as I can remember) pondered the mechanics of that event (and the picture of Abraham’s bosom in Luke 16) and what both mean in terms of what will happen immediately after I die and before my body is resurrected.

What I’d like you do comment on, especially given your background in both Hebrew, OT, and ancient Near/Mid Eastern history, concerns the other component of this discussion: what about the body itself during this “translation through time”? Knowing what we know (or what we can known) in 2009 about death, resurrection, glorification, body/soul relationship, is there a mandate on how a body be treated during this period? Pine box, cremation, entombment, embalming (ancient Egyptian or modern chemical hardening) and so on.

If not a mandate (and this is where it gets fun for me), how would you/do you, as a pastor, counsel folks who are planning their own arrangements or the grieving family who are attempting to honor the departed.